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  #41  
Old 14-03-12, 05:28 PM
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Amana Amana is offline
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Have just been on to the site for this WTP bit and found it very interesting and explains its uses and what it looks like, there are numerous types of bit with this plate on them. I personally cannot see how it can cause any problems with horses that could benefit from it as long as it is given time to accept it.

http://www.iiwinners.com/tongueplate/index.html

Hope it is helpful to those who are opposed to using other methods in training.
I will be chasing up one for my harness ponies as I have one who hangs his tongue out the side of his mouth and others who do get their tongue over the bit. I put on a gob-stopper (mouth strap) to keep their mouth closed for this reason.

Amana
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  #42  
Old 14-03-12, 05:31 PM
hastar hastar is online now
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Amana, I had a horse that hung it's tongue out on one side and it was definitely referred pain. Was always the side that had the pain issue.

hastar
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  #43  
Old 14-03-12, 05:37 PM
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Amana Amana is offline
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Have just been on to the site for this WTP bit and found it very interesting and explains its uses and what it looks like, there are numerous types of bit with this plate on them. I personally cannot see how it can cause any problems with horses that could benefit from it as long as it is given time to accept it.

www.iiwinners.com/tongueplate/index.html

Hope it is helpful to those who are opposed to using other methods in training.
I will be chasing up one for my harness ponies as I have one who hangs his tongue out the side of his mouth and others who do get their tongue over the bit. I put on a gob-stopper (mouth strap) to keep their mouth closed for this reason.

Amana
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  #44  
Old 14-03-12, 05:41 PM
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Amana Amana is offline
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Thanks, Hastar.
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  #45  
Old 14-03-12, 05:47 PM
Mia Mia is offline
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Just my opinion mid you, but you might as well buy a bag of icing sugar. Bits of this nature do not resolve a problem, they simply cover it up

Horse tell us quite loudly when something is wrong, it is up to us to figure out exactly what that is

A responsible horse owner should put every effort into reading their horse and trying to resolve problems, not mask the problem with a mechanical aid

If you bake a bad or burnt cake you can ice it to make it look good, but it is still not going to make the cake any better, it is just a cover up
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  #46  
Old 14-03-12, 05:48 PM
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Amana Amana is offline
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Have just been on to the site for this WTP bit and found it very interesting and explains its uses and what it looks like, there are numerous types of bit with this plate on them. I personally cannot see how it can cause any problems with horses that could benefit from it as long as it is given time to accept it.

www.iiwinners.com/tongueplate/index.html

Hope it is helpful to those who are opposed to using other methods in training.
I will be chasing up one for my harness ponies as I have one who hangs his tongue out the side of his mouth and others who do get their tongue over the bit. I put on a gob-stopper (mouth strap) to keep their mouth closed for this reason.

Sorry, seem to have posted this a couple of times, a seniors moment me thinks.

Amana
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  #47  
Old 14-03-12, 06:02 PM
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Amana Amana is offline
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Ok Mia, go to the website and read some testimonials from prominent people such as David Hayes, Mark Cavanagh, Robert Smerdon (all top trainers) also trotting trainers/drivers, Olympic Riders, etc. Hope you do not think they are using these bits as easy fixes as well.
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  #48  
Old 14-03-12, 07:22 PM
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Amana, I don't think anyone is particularly knocking this bit, more saying that there are other issues that need to be resolved with this horse. The harness and TB racing arena is worlds away from what we do with our riding horses and what we expect from them so while it might be ideal for them it doesn't necessarily follow that it be right for us.
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  #49  
Old 14-03-12, 08:02 PM
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neonfilledlakes neonfilledlakes is offline
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Ok let me put some things straight as my explaining is shocking when I go back and read.
1. My horse has NEVER bucked with a bit.
2. He has not had a bit in more than 10 times and has never put a foot wrong with one just played with it and has his tongue over the top.
3. The bucking reason has since been figured out and is being fixed(it has nothing to do with the bitting).
4. I have NEVER ridden my horse he has only been ridden by experienced people.
5. The Tom Thumb bit pinched, I do NOT want my horse to associate a bit with pain so stopping earlier rather than once an issue/habbit has formed was a better option.
6. This bit was an option to get him started on a bit and find it ok and not a bad thing. We have been looking at many options not just ONE. I was just interested in finding out if anyone had had experience with it.
7. I talk to many people about options and so forth and then work on the best option I do not do all this on my own I know I am NOT experienced in everything but I AM TRYING!!!.
8. I don't mean for my responses to seem hot headed or rude and I am sorry if I do(unfortunately that is me and I am sorry)
9. I am myself am getting training along with my horse as I am not stupid enough to get hurt.
10. I will NEVER put myself(Hense I have never been on my boy) or my horse at risk of something dangerous he means far too much to me.
11. Please don't critisize me for taking opinions and information from other people that have different views or ideas so while you may not like what i think may work or someone else thinks might work you cannot say I am bad owner or going to end up with a dangerous horse. My horse is one of the most placid horses which is said by many people so what i put up may make him sound like a crazy insane horse he is actually nothing like it. He very rarely does anything wrong and when he does I always know there is something wrong or he has just not understood me.
After everything on here I have actually spoken to the creator of the bit personally on the phone and what he had to say was quite interesting. I am doing ALOT of research into this as I want to make the right decision and I AM trying my hardest.
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  #50  
Old 14-03-12, 08:23 PM
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kylieloveslouie kylieloveslouie is offline
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I too went on the website and found it an interesting concept.It must be better than over tight nosebands.I spoke to them too and I would give it a try.It is not a cruel bit ,merely a new design to keep the bit from causing pain by laying it flat at the back of the tongue.I dont understand how that could be a bad thing for a breaker.Teach the horse to except the bit properly from the start.A snaffle bit is not a nice concept either when you see xrays of how they sit in a horses mouth

Last edited by kylieloveslouie; 14-03-12 at 08:28 PM.
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  #51  
Old 14-03-12, 08:36 PM
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Speechless.

Hope your ambo membership is paid up. Sincerely hope nothing bad happens NFL but you are taking some interesting and completely unnecessary risks.
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  #52  
Old 14-03-12, 09:11 PM
Mia Mia is offline
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**Throws hands in the air, and violently bangs head against a brick wall**

Does no one get the concept that there is a bloody reason why this horse is putting his tongue over the bit? And it is not because of a tom thumb bit doing damage after 5-10 rides- the riders hands is more like it!

No one is disputing that the bit will physically (mechanically) prevent the horse from doing this- but it will not solve the original problem or cause!

As I have said- I wish your horse luck, it needs it!

NFL I think you need a **good** mentor who can help you in your endeavours to learn about horses. If your current trainer, and breaker, are encouraging your current path they are not **good** and are ripping you off. If your trainer cannot tell you the reason behind your horses bit evasion and resorts to using the tongue depressor type bits then they are no trainer. You need to solve problems- not mask them

I offer this advice in a genuine attempt to help your horse. If I am sin binned because I am blunt then so be it- this needs to be said to help the horse and if you persist in your defending of your trainer then you need to have your eyes opened

Bit manufactureres will say their bit is the best- google different bits and see the rave reviews for all bits. The racing industry is full of quick fixes as time is big money in the racing world. As long as the horse wins they really dont care what it takes to get it to the top. Google some of the racing bits and tongue ties and see how many of them are legal for dressage or showing, or even pony club (obviously many are not!). A race horse is a totally different ball game to a saddle horse.

I also hate to burst your bubble but well known dentities will let their name be used in promotion & endorsement of products- they get well paid for it! It does not mean they extensively use (or even use it constantly on one horse) at all. And no one is arguing the effectiveness of the bit, just that it shouldnt be the first thing to turn to when a horse has an issue

Please help your horse and discover what the real issue is behind his beahviour. The first bit (tom thumb) may not have been the right bit, but there are many standard single and double jointed options that you can try as well as getting the corrrect fit
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  #53  
Old 14-03-12, 09:11 PM
hastar hastar is online now
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Can't you buy proper mouthing bits with the keys attached for them to "mouth", anymore.

Someone must have an old mouthing bit they can take a piccie of to show what "used" to be used to mouth horses so they learned to accept the bit & not put their tongue over.

I have never needed one but they were standard breaking equipment many, many moons ago.

All my books are still packed away & don't really know which direction to start looking.

The "keys" sit on the tongue and give them something to jiggle.

Tried & tested equipment.

As for TBs - I rode for a trainer in the late '60s and even then there were the properly broken ones and the "others". These days you only have "the others".

hastar
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  #54  
Old 14-03-12, 09:18 PM
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Still got mine somewhere Hastar
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  #55  
Old 14-03-12, 09:21 PM
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You can still buy mouthing bits Hastar
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  #56  
Old 14-03-12, 09:26 PM
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Amana Amana is offline
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Agree that racing is a different arena but any type of bit will work the same way on any horse no matter what his career.
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  #57  
Old 14-03-12, 09:30 PM
Levi Levi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amana View Post
Agree that racing is a different arena but any type of bit will work the same way on any horse no matter what his career.
Not quite sure if that is true. You won't get the same effect using a bit in harness racing that you do in dressage. Just by it's nature, you have a very long rein attached to it and it comes across much interference before it touches the hands. Myler used to make a half spoon bit for harness racing but no longer do as the benefits of the myler are lost somewhat in the way it is used.
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  #58  
Old 14-03-12, 09:38 PM
hastar hastar is online now
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Yay Levi - that's what the horse needs. Remouthing by a good breaker with an old fashioned mouthing bit.
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  #59  
Old 14-03-12, 10:02 PM
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Yes those bits with the keys are definitely still around. The trainer we recently used to remouth our pony had one...coincidentally the pony had been "broken in" by a racehorse trainer. She is now brilliant with a beautiful mouth..
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  #60  
Old 15-03-12, 06:59 AM
Jan heine Jan heine is offline
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I wasn't going to buy into this because NFL seems to be all over the shop with the posts regarding the horse and his/her own level of experience and so on.

I can honestly say that at no stage in my around 40 years of horses has any breaker been bitted in anything but either a nice gentle snaffle or the key bit mentioned.

I would be very suspicious of any trainer who uses a "technical" bit on a breaker and more so a trainer who recommends a "technical" bit to a green student.

The example I would like to give is the Pee Wee bit which was "invented" some years ago now....it was recommended for use on breakers, young horses, older horses with mouth issues and there were heaps of testimonials by well known riders in all disciplines from english to western and everything in between.

I had occasion to be looking for a different kind of bit for my precious White Woman and having gone through all the conventional "known" bits I turned to the Pee Wee - I read the website and testimonials and ordered one.

I can say without question this bit was a godsend for her, but at the time she was still a very sick princess and so it outlived its usefulness quickly.

My decision on the Pee Wee bits is that it is a fabulous bit and for the issues my mare was having it was great BUT and please this is a huge BUT it is not a bit for a green rider and I certainly wouldn't recommend it as a breaking bit.

It is a bit, which in the hands of a very experienced rider with very very still and steady hands is brilliant but if the rider is even slightly uneven on this bit it will cause the horse immense pain.

As for using it for a breaker, sure if the trainer has very very still and uneven hands and is confident the horse is going to be "easily" broken then sure great bit.

But if the breaker, or green horse, has a spack attack and the riders hands become heavy or uneven then the young horse will most likely have a ruined mouth for life as they will fear the bit.

So having said all that....I am arrogant enough to say that I don't need to go to the website to know that the bit you have described is not a bit I personally would ever consider using on a breaker or for a green rider and that doesn't mean I am not open to new products or new ideas.
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